Ceci n'est pas une endive - Tag - theory
Cross country, across cultures.
2023-10-30T14:01:38+01:00
urn:md5:97d871692b4a89344d241201adc049a4
Dotclear
Time is Relative
urn:md5:3c19f371dfde815b47ed244542435b95
2011-04-29T21:28:00+02:00
2011-04-30T10:02:05+02:00
notafish
communication(s)
intercultural
theory
time
values
yesterday
<p>Où j'explique combien la perception du temps varie selon le cadre de référence. Par exemple, sur internet, un site qui a dix ans est un site vieux, alors qu'un hôtel ou un café qui a 10 ans et le montre est plutôt ridicule.</p> <p>Among the cultural dimensions laid out by <a href="http://www.geert-hofstede.com/" hreflang="en" title="www.geert-hofstede.com/">Geert Hofstede</a>, there is one that is based on time and our relationship to it. He calles it "Long term orientation". The idea behind this is that culture shapes the way we relate to time, or rather, that our behaviour inscribes itself in a frame that also has a relationship to time.</p>
<p>There is a pretty standard exercise you can do when trying to help people get the grip on cultural differences, which consists of asking them to give a value to fuzzy propositions and see how they come up with different answers. For time, it could be something like this:</p>
<ul>
<li><em>He came late to the meeting</em></li>
</ul>
<p>People then have to say whether "late" means 5 minutes, 15 minutes or an hour, or whatever length of time "late" means to them.
In a German/French crowd, you'll probably have much longer delays among the French than among the Germans (a stigmata of the legendary German punctuality). A French may answer (well, at least I would) at least 20 minutes, while for a German, 5 minutes is already very late. Just to show, </p>
<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/tailor_established_reign.jpg" title="Heaphys Quality Menswear - Established in the reign of William IV - © Elliott Brown-CC-BY"><img src="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/.tailor_established_reign_s.jpg" alt="Heaphys Quality Menswear - Established in the reign of William IV - © Elliott Brown-CC-BY" style="float: left; margin-top: 0; margin-right: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0; " title="Heaphys Quality Menswear - Established in the reign of William IV - © Elliott Brown-CC-BY, avr. 2011" /></a>
<p>I keep noticing how companies, great or small, tend to tell how long they've been around. How many times have you crossed a truck that said proudly "Company & Sons, Established 1985". I must say that every time I see this, and the date is a date which I have memories from (I would say my first "public" memory is 1981, when Mitterrand was elected president of France), I feel that boasting about it is a bit over the top. "I mean, seriously, you make pipes and electrical ware since 1985, who cares?" But then I actually make the calculation and realize that well, that's about 30 years. Pretty good, actually.</p>
<p>Of course, you have the "really old" ones. Our very own baker in Königstein "Haus der Qualität seit 1750" (House of quality since 1750) displays an experience dating back 260 years, quite an achievement indeed. In Europe in general, you'll see lots of businesses displaying proudly their ancient experience. Hotels, Cafés and restaurants are specialists of the genre.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/time_blogs.png" title="Blogs displaying when they came to be"><img src="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/time_blogs.png" alt="Blogs displaying when they came to be" style="margin-top: 0; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 0; margin-left: auto; display: block; " title="Blogs displaying when they came to be, avr. 2011" /></a></p>
<p><a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/first_Starbucks.jpg" title="Established 1971 - © Kim Navarre - CC-BY-SA"><img src="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/.first_Starbucks_s.jpg" alt="Established 1971 - © Kim Navarre - CC-BY-SA" style="float: right; margin-top: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; " title="Established 1971 - © Kim Navarre - CC-BY-SA, avr. 2011" /></a>While surfing a few days back, however, it came to me that internet has introduced a very interesting and new relationship to time. The internet (or the web, if we want to be precise) has existed for the general public for no more than 15 years. Which makes the whole frame of reference rather awkward. I stumbled upon a few blogs in the past few days which made a case of how long they had been around. 2003, 1999, 2000. In relative time, ie. in my lifespan's frame, this is rather young, not to say it's almost just yesterday. And yet, in the web's lifespan, this is like... ancient.</p>
<p>What I find interesting, is how my own relationship to time changes depending on the context. I'd be impressed with a website that's been around for 10 years and is still successful, but not so with a Café that can only boast of a 10 year long experience. Not to mention that I feel very young, so any business boasting "Around since 1971" would be construed as bragging in my mind's eye (yeah, you, Starbucks!). Come on, I'm not "that" old, that you'd want to tell the world you've been around for that long!</p>
<p>What about you? Do you also feel this stretch in time depending on what you're looking at?</p>
<div class="footnotes">
<p>Image sources:</p>
<ul>
<li>Heaphys Quality Menswear - Established in the reign of William IV - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ell-r-brown/3642624098/">© Elliott Brown</a> - <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en">CC-BY</a>
</li>
<li>Established 1971 - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thegirlsny/4746116841/">© Kim Navarre</a> - <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.en">CC-BY-SA</a></li>
<li>Image with blog exerpts from: <a href="http://stephanie-booth.com/">Stephanie Booth's website</a>, Steve Ivy's website <a href="http://www.monkinetic.com/">Monkinetic</a>, <a href="http://www.robertbasic.de/" hreflang="de">Robert Basic's blog</a>.
</li>
</ul>
</div>
Vorauseilender Gehorsam
urn:md5:b38f3f3902559d400de8b39efdc0a6c2
2009-07-03T14:36:00+02:00
2009-07-03T13:38:49+02:00
notafish
the other words
Deutsch
English
français
multilingual
theory
words
<p>While reading <a href="http://berlin.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2009/06/29/sous-un-tilleul.html" hreflang="fr">one of the blogs</a> I follow from afar on the "intercultural" scene, I stumbled upon the concet of "vorauseilender Gehorsam" (obedience before the order), an interesting concept which the commenter on the blog thought could be an explanation for the rise in English words within other languages. The idea being that people obey soe "unknown boss" that expects them to strew their conversations with English words to be fashionable, because it is the thing to do.</p> <p>Ne crisez pas, ce billet est en français, seul le titre est en allemand. Je me baladais sur l'un des blogs "interculturels" que je lis de temps en temps (je suis une piètre lectrice de blogs, mais c'est une autre histoire) et suis tombée sur <a href="http://berlin.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2009/06/29/sous-un-tilleul.html" hreflang="fr">ce billet</a> qui fait écho à <a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2009/05/30/which-language-says-it-best" hreflang="fr">mes billets</a> <a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2009/05/21/the-extended-meanings-of-words" hreflang="fr">précédents</a> sur la difficulté (ou le bonheur) de parler plusieurs langues.</p>
<p>Le phénomène de Vorausleidender Gehorsam (obéissance avant l'ordre), tel qu'expliqué par Matthias sur le billet de Caroline est un concept que je ne connaissais pas et que je trouve particulièrement intéressant. Je ne suis pas certaine qu'il s'applique à l'exemple donné par Caroline, qui me semble plutôt relever du "which language says it best". En l'occurrence, le contexte (conversation avec un américain) appelle le mot le plus proche du sens que l'on veut dire, facilité par le fait que l'on sait que la personne à qui l'on parle comprendra ce mot de toutes façons. Il suffit d'écouter les conversations de personnes à la langue maternelle commune mais vivant dans un pays étranger pour voir se profiler nombre des ces "localisations" sauvages. Combien de fois ai-je parlé du Finanzamt à un français d'Allemagne, parce que le Trésor Public est un concept franco-français...</p>
<p>En revanche, cette idée de "vorauseilender Gehorsam" me paraît intéressante pour expliquer la "montée" des mots anglais dans les autres langues. On peut imaginer que le "chef" désincarné dans le contexte actuel est le phénomène de mode. Il est de bon ton de truffer son vocabulaire de mots anglais, pour montrer qu'on est "in" (à la page !), même si on les utilise parfois à tort et à travers. Les allemands sont très forts pour ça, entre le <em>Handy</em> (cell phone) et le <em>Beamer</em> (projector) qui s'ils ont des consonnances anglophones, ne sont pas de vrais mots de la langue anglaise. Je me suis surprise parlant d'un <em>beamer</em> à des anglophones qui me regardaient dun air étrange. Bref, que ce soit la mode, le net ou tout autre "chef" qui nous pousse à mélanger les langues et les genres, je trouve ce concept développé par Matthias très intéressant.</p>
The Bowl Theory
urn:md5:53c10cb5c659e7dfcc01f7983336a3ed
2008-10-08T15:32:00+02:00
2023-10-30T14:48:38+01:00
notafish
the other words
interpretation
name
theory
words
<p>I'm being lazy today, and I am just translating an <a href="http://notablog.notafish.com/index.php/2007/05/26/172-la-theorie-du-bol" hreflang="fr">article</a> I wrote quite some time ago on my other (dead) blog, which explores the way words are interpreted with a cultural filter.</p>
<p>The full title for this post was <q>The Bowl Theory, or The Dictionary Has its Reasons Which Reason Does Not Know <sup>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#wiki-footnote-1" id="rev-wiki-footnote-1">1</a>]</sup></q></p>
<p>Let us take the French word "bol". If you flip through (even virtually) a bunch of dictionaries, you will find the following definitions:</p>
<p>In <a href="http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/fast.exe?mot=bol2" hreflang="fr">French</a> :</p>
<blockquote><p><code>BOL</code>, subst. masc.<br />
A. 1. Pièce de vaisselle de forme généralement hémisphérique servant à prendre certaines boissons<br />
<em>A piece of china generaly of a hemispheric shape, used to take in some beverages.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>In <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bowl" hreflang="en">English</a> :</p>
<blockquote><p><code>bowl</code> –noun<br />
1.a rather deep, round dish or basin, used chiefly for holding liquids, food, etc.<br /></p></blockquote>
<p>In German, it's already a bit more complicated. <a href="http://dict.leo.org/frde?lp=frde&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=on&search=bol&relink=on" hreflang="de">Leo</a> translates <em>bol</em> by Schale which my dictionary <sup>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#wiki-footnote-2" id="rev-wiki-footnote-2">2</a>]</sup> describes in the following terms:</p>
<blockquote><p><code>Schale</code> -n <br />
1 - eine relativ flache Schüssel<br />
''a relatively flat "Schüssel"<sup>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#wiki-footnote-3" id="rev-wiki-footnote-3">3</a>]</sup> <br />
2 - Tasse<br />
<em>A cup</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Which brings us back to the definition of Schüssel, still in that Langenscheidts dictionary</p>
<blockquote><p><code>Schüssel</code> -n<br />
1 - ein tiefes, rundes Gefäß, das oben offen ist und in dem man Speisen auf dem Tisch stellt.<br />
<em>A deep and round recipient, often open at the top, which is used to serve food on the table</em> (see image provided).</p></blockquote>
<p><img src="http://blog.notanendive.org/public/bol.jpg" alt="from Langenscheidts Großwörterbuch - Deutsch als Fremdschprache" style="display:table; margin:0 auto;" title="Die Schüssel" /></p>
<p>So. If you stop at the base definition of the word <em>bol</em>, you end up on roughly the same thing. A round and hollow utensil. So far, so good. However, it becomes complicated when you start using the word in every day life.</p>
<p>Imagine the simple sentence :</p>
<blockquote><p>Tous les matins, je prends un bol de chocolat. (<em>Every morning, I take a bowl of chocolate</em>).</p></blockquote>
<p>For a French person, no problem, it's a rather logical use of the word <em>bol</em>. It is even, one could say, the primary use of the word bol. In France, you drink a bow of coffee, or a bowl of tea, preferably with a croissant in the morning. Occasionally you have a bowl of soup, that works too.</p>
<p>Except that when you tell an English speaker <q>I'm drinking a bowl of chocolate.</q>, they're bound to look at you funny. Because <em>bowl</em> in English speaking countries is more often used for soup than it os for coffee. For coffee at breakfast, you have <em>cups</em> or <em>mugs</em>, not <em>bowls</em>.</p>
<p>Let me not even speak about the Germans, which only know the <em>Tasse</em> (cup) for chocolate and have only heard about <em>Schale</em> or Schüssel in relation with fruits, icecream or even salad. Not to mention that they probably have never seen a <em>bol</em> as I know it.</p>
<p>All of this to illustrate how much culture influences language and the difficulty that you may face trying to translate a word without explaining the context. Even words that we might use on an every day basis carry way much more history and cultural influences than you'd think. I can't imagine what the British would do if I asked them for a bowl of tea, or the Germans if I asked for a bowl of coffee...</p>
<p>I'd be interested though, what the meaning of <em>bol</em> is in other languages. Are there more meanings of the word out there?</p>
<div class="footnotes"><h4>Notes</h4>
<p>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#rev-wiki-footnote-1" id="wiki-footnote-1">1</a>] This is actually a pun on a French phrase: "Le coeur a sa raison que la raison ne connaît pas" which I might explain one day or another.</p>
<p>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#rev-wiki-footnote-2" id="wiki-footnote-2">2</a>] Langenscheidts Großwörterbuch - Deutsch als Fremdschprache (German as a foreign language)</p>
<p>[<a href="http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/10/08/The-Bowl-Theory#rev-wiki-footnote-3" id="wiki-footnote-3">3</a>] Dictionaries make a point of referring to an equivalent object to explain a word. If you don't know the definition of said object, you're dead. When of course said object does not refer in turn to the word you were looking for in the first place...</p></div>